Delivering the Goods - 18th Feburary

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The following is the transcript of the "Delivering the goods" Seminar held February 18th, 2012 Presented by ISD Dualgate and ISD IonCharge.

Contents have been edited for errors and clarity only.

 Channel ID:      -25298757
 Channel Name:    Seminars
 Listener:        ISD Dualgate
 Session started: 2012.02.18 14:51:26

ISD IonCharge > o/

ISD IonCharge > For those who haven't yet done so, please join channel:Seminar Q&Ato ask questions and discuss the seminar in progress. You will be able to speak there; this channel is restricted for the seminar delivery.

ISD IonCharge > And so, I turn over to ISD Dualgate to commence today's seminar, titled Delivering the Goods - all about industry and manufacturing and such.

ISD Dualgate > Greetings everybody, and thank you ISD Ioncharge, I welcome all of you who came today

ISD Dualgate > first off, please remember that the Q&A channel is an ISD channel, so please leave conversation related to that of the seminar, and on that, will begin!

ISD IonCharge > For those who haven't yet done so, please join channel:Seminar Q&Ato ask questions and discuss the seminar in progress. You will be able to speak there; this channel is restricted for the seminar delivery.

ISD Dualgate > Now Industry in itself is made up of a series of related issues, Mining, manufacturing, research, planets and trading

ISD Dualgate > For most players, this starts with mining. While the tutorial does cover the function of mining, it doesn't cover more advanced topics such as what is typically needed to be successful and ore locations

ISD Dualgate > First thing to note is not every faction has the same ores. So when looking for something specific, you might need to head somewhere else.

ISD Dualgate > For example, Omber can only be found in minmatar and gallente space. For time, we will not be covering every ore, but if you are looking for something or wondering what an ore is or produces, the following link has an excellent chart

ISD Dualgate >

ISD Dualgate > The one main thing about ore mining is that some have a yield difference. To maximize earnings, you will want to go for the higher grade ores. Each ore has 3 variants

ISD Dualgate > A basic, a 5% yield, and a 10% yield. If you are a smaller miner, this focused mining will help increase your earnings. The link above has listed each ore and it's bonus. Some also say in description

ISD Dualgate > While the key to mining is the mining, successful, and enjoyable mining requires teamwork. Solo requires storing the ore in space and picking up yourself, or many flights with your mining ship back to station

ISD Dualgate > So with that note, the three basics to enjoyable and effective mining are you need the miners, enough haulers to match the yield, and ideally a support command ship like the orca

ISD Dualgate > what this allows is security against people who might steal your wares, efficency, and if fitted with tractor beams, the fleet can spread in a belt to more effectively cover the mining

ISD IonCharge > To anyone who's joined late, please also join the channel:Seminar Q&Ato ask questions and discuss the seminar in progress.

ISD Dualgate > Now another important part is to focus on mining what you have the best skills for. Just because something is more valuable per unit, doesn't mean better profit. Each ore has a different volume, what you want to do is a test processing,

ISD Dualgate > This is refining a specific colume of ore, and see which will net you the most isk per hour

ISD Dualgate > If you are not performing production, it might be best to focus on one over the other.

ISD Dualgate > Also note that some ores are not available in all security ratings. The best mining for budding industrialists is 0.5-0.7 highsec

ISD Dualgate > The best industrial systems to mine, you will want to look for ones with low populations and abundant belts. If you have the haulers, these systems tend to be ones without stations, where the high yield ores are in abundance

ISD Dualgate > the higher security systems tend to be more heavily mined which can reduce profit, but you do avoid the npc spawns

ISD Dualgate > .I saw in the help channel a comment about the canisters and tractoring, good point to bring up for a tip

ISD Dualgate > a good strategy is to rename a jetcan for the time it was deployed, this will make sure it doesn't despawn. *(edit: By not despawn, it allows you to track the time so you can make sure it is emptied before it despawns) When ready to be tractored, they can just rename it

ISD Dualgate > to say tractor, full or whatever your fleet decides

ISD Dualgate > As corporations get larger, it is not uncommon to get into production. This is best when you start getting 100% yields when you refine, and a high lvl 4 or ideally level 5 production efficiency skill.

ISD Dualgate > Now the reason for this is the economics, as an industrialist in production, you will have to compete against others in the market. If the other person can make it using less materials, they can sell it for more profit or for a lower cost

ISD Dualgate > The basis of all assembly is the blueprints. One of the more expensive thing that new players might do is buy their blueprint from the market.

ISD Dualgate > they are expensive, and unresearched originals always from the market. Without research, it will take longer and more materials to make.

ISD Dualgate > the best way when starting out is to buy affordable copies off the contract. In larger productions such as ships, the cost of the blueprint copy can be less than the ore saved by using the bpc. It also eliminates the initial expense

ISD Dualgate > There is another use for blueprint copies, both bought or made yourself, and that is in research

ISD Dualgate > when you have an original, you can perform various tasks outside of production if you have the right skills.

ISD Dualgate > Typically it will begin with just improving efficency. If something is being made alot by yourself, it can be time to buy an original and improve it.

ISD Dualgate > Kai'ne in Q&A asked about assessing costs. There is no exact way to do it. Most large industry corps will actually use spreadsheets for their common production

  • Disconnection: possible overlap

ISD Dualgate > Sorry, technical problem

ISD Dualgate > To continue, The purpose of the research is to reduce both the minerals it costs, as well as the time it takes to complete a job

ISD Dualgate > The originals can also be copied with research. These copies are an effective way to perform multiple production runs at a single time, as well as for more advanced research

ISD Dualgate > For T2 items, you need to perform an invention on a blueprint copy

ISD Dualgate > What is required when performing an invention task is the appropriate skills as well as certain decrptors to perform the job. These can be found in the information page for the blueprints.

ISD Dualgate > Because different factions and items each use different items to produce, we won't go into detail on them, but the other part of research and invention is the decryptor

ISD Dualgate > what these will do is provide bonuses upon a successful invention attempt

ISD Dualgate > One thing to remember is that invention is probability, you might not always have successful production out of it.

ISD Dualgate > has a list of the different items as well as interfaces which invention can use as well

ISD Dualgate > the LP store is also a source of blueprints. If you or your corporation only does mining once and a while, you can purchase faction bpcs from the lp stores and make them.

ISD Dualgate > The other side of production is a bit smaller and more for low security, that is gas mining and poses

ISD Dualgate > Sometimes in highsec but mostly in low or nullsec, you might find gas pockets while exploring

ISD Dualgate > these materials can go through a reaction process in order to make boosters. The reaction process itself is more a pos related issue and setup is complex, but it does require a player owned structure

ISD Dualgate > As such, will not be covering it in this topic, but with most Player owned structures in 0.3 and lower, you can mine moons

ISD Dualgate > The moons mine different elements, the most sought after is tec for example

ISD Dualgate > Technetium

ISD Dualgate > These get reacted into materials used for advanced production for large scale manufacturing.

ISD Dualgate > Oh, and correction from the Q&A, POS is player owned starbase, not structure

ISD Dualgate > Sorry for any confusion

ISD Dualgate > A third form of industry is that of planetary interaction. For this, anybody can set up, and it all begins with the planet selection

ISD Dualgate > We will not be going through the different materials and planets today, but the purpose of the setup is for production of Player Starbase structures and fuels.

ISD Dualgate > The production itself commonly consists of 5 levels, refered to by many as P0-P4

ISD Dualgate > This is the terminology I will be using for this section, each P# rating essentially represents how many stages for production it has to go through

ISD Dualgate > P0 is the raw industrial product, It is the start of your planetary production. The key for this is your extractor hub. We wont be talking directly about the setup of them, for that, this link is the best guide.

ISD Dualgate >

ISD Dualgate > It will go through the stages of setup, I will be talking about efficency and ideal ways to produce

ISD Dualgate > Now the P0 needs to be processed as a basic industrial building. While some might route extractors directly to them, you might want to set up a secondary storage hub to catch any overflow

ISD Dualgate > This will net you your P1 industry. After that, you will route into an advanced factory. While P1 only requires the one item, P2 and P3 require two different items for production

ISD Dualgate > Typically for starting out, these P2 and P3 area a good item to focus on.

ISD Dualgate > they can be made on any planet, and typically high demand POS fuel or components.

ISD Dualgate > P4 require a well planned production to make profitable

ISD Dualgate > The P4 structures require a high tech production building and these can only be make on barren or temperate planets. When performing large scale production, you will want your planets all near or in the same system

ISD Dualgate > this will limit time hauling

ISD Dualgate > and to haul it, you will want to make sure you have a customs office that is adequate for your purposes. In highsec, they are npc controlled and high taxed. But secure and stable. PI goods are less though

ISD Dualgate > In low and null security, the yields are high, but not all planets might have customs offices, or if the do, be sure to check the tax rate. Or all profit might be lost when you try and get the goods out

ISD Dualgate > In a moment we will be finishing up with the market ins and outs, but before, any questions about what we covered so far?

ISD Dualgate > Knova Knight asks the purpose of customs offices.

ISD Dualgate > These are how you deliver goods to and pick up large volumes of goods from the planets.

ISD Dualgate > for small scale, you can launch up to 500m3 from your command center to a beacon to space

ISD Dualgate > but anything more or deliveries must go between the customs office in space and the launch pad structure which needs to be built on the surface

ISD Dualgate > They get loaded into the customs office just like a private container in space for planet items, and there is an option to transfer goods too/from launchpads

ISD Dualgate > I didn't see any other questions, so the last bit here, the markets

ISD Dualgate > With exception of key items such as blueprint originals and skillbooks, everything in the market is player traded

ISD Dualgate > every order you buy or sell to is a player. It is a big money industry if you have the starting capital to trade, or you are producing and want to sell yourself

ISD Dualgate > Because of this, the basis is buy low, sell high. But not as easy as it sounds.

ISD Dualgate > To buy and sell goods from other players, you will need to use the advanced features tab in the market. A basic purchase or sale will go from what is on market. The advanced places an order of your own

ISD Dualgate > you can set durations, quantities, range, many different option.

ISD Dualgate > The general just of it is that many players would rather the quick isk. To buy cheap, find out where players are running missions for example.

ISD Dualgate > these will be good sources for salvage or materials. Mining systems are a good source of added mineral if you don't wish to mine yourself

ISD Dualgate > Typically for minerals you will place large orders over a small range to prevent needing to fly all over to pick it up. Over time, these orders often get filled by small sales of ores which another player doesn't have enough of to refine

ISD Dualgate > or minerals which can be gotten by reprocessing modules

ISD Dualgate > The selling is most commonly done in market hubs, this can ensure a quick sale if you watch your market order or is a rare item.

ISD Dualgate > It is not necessarily the best place to sell though

ISD Dualgate > smaller pvp popular ships can often be sold for more in 0.5 security and other border systems

ISD Dualgate > pirates and people in war want quick access to ships and might not be able to enter the hubs due to security status, this can allow for markup if the competition is light, or not even sold there

ISD Dualgate > The markets are competitive however, and should you be underbid, you will need to modify an order

ISD Dualgate > this is simply done by clicking the my orders tab in the market window and a right click to select modify order.

ISD Dualgate > set your new prices, and it will adjust to that.

ISD Dualgate > The last item for the day is reading the sell orders, these can confuse many people

ISD Dualgate > oop, one more part about buy

ISD Dualgate > the details section

ISD Dualgate > when you click on a group, you will see a list with the buy button. The price that is listed there isn't necessarily the best price you can get an item for when buying

ISD Dualgate > the price listed is only in relation to the range you set for the market filter. The show details button will bring up all for sale in the region to see better prices

ISD Dualgate > you can also view a graph to see price trends, and quantities sold, it can be useful when first starting, find lesser sold items, they might be on the rise in price

ISD Dualgate > When you are in the detail windows, at the bottom is all the orders for people buying

ISD Dualgate > this list is all items in the region. Anything highlighted green though will buy from the station you are docked at or area

ISD Dualgate > So when selling, check the details, one jump over might get more isk for it, or somebody might pay more to buy than you are willing

ISD Dualgate > and that is about it, to start final questions, Devore in Q&A asks why some items are only on contract

ISD Dualgate > this is because the market works by a database, it just tracks quantity and where. Most contract items are really rare where people need to search global

ISD Dualgate > or things like rigged ships where there are so many combinations, it would clog the contracts.

ISD Dualgate > A long while back there was a dev article about the system but I am unsure where it is

ISD Dualgate > but the contract for trading enables the unique properties to be shown. It is why the market can only show seeded blueprints

ISD Dualgate > the variations in all the qualities of owned ones would be too much data

ISD Dualgate > further questions?

ISD Dualgate > Kurrinos asked about the moving average. There are two ways to read that. Sometimes it can be because of changes in warfare or game mechanics, where something becomes more desirable

ISD Dualgate > this was seen with battleship guns when the new battlecruisers came out

ISD Dualgate > If you see demand is going up, check to see what the market is like, it could be supply is running low and a good time to sell that

ISD Dualgate > on the other hand, sometimes people will buy items to drive the market up, then sell them in bulk so watch for large orders

ISD Dualgate > Another cause can be if something similar becomes to expensive, also common with weapons

ISD Dualgate > meta 4 might become too high priced for pvp, so the pvpers will swap to meta 3 weapons.

ISD Dualgate > Ahh, bombus made a good point, watch the trade volume too, if something is selling alot, then it is demand drive reducing supply.

ISD Dualgate > just because there is alot on the market might not make it a bad thing to sell. If the supply is high because demand is high, then a slight change can cause the prices to rocket

ISD Dualgate > a comparision of sales to supply can be a good clue to ease of sale as well

ISD Dualgate > most important thing with trade is that for profit, dont expect instant sales to make the higher isk. Assortment of goods will build a steady and good supply of isk

ISD Dualgate > So if one person undercuts with only one item, don;t necessarily drop your price, let them have the quick sale.

ISD Dualgate > Any further questions?

ISD IonCharge > At this point I would like to thank ISD Dualgate for delivering a great seminar. A transcript will be available soon at and you can also check that page for details of upcoming seminars as it's updated.

ISD Dualgate > If not, I would like to thank ISD IonCharge for helping with all of the questions and of course all of you for your time. I hope it was informative and gave you new insight about the complexities and enjoyment that can be found in the industry

ISD IonCharge > You can also get notifications of upcoming seminars by following our twitter feed at!/ISD_STAR/

ISD IonCharge > You can leave comments or requests for future seminars at

ISD IonCharge > Fly safe!

ISD Dualgate >Fly Safe! o/

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